Saying things forgot about....

Thursday, November 27, 2008

Piracy (mumbai)

Have it happen, the first day you'd write about piracy , the next day there is a naval attack against mumbai. Everyone blames the muslims and we must assume it were not the tamils, but it could be anything, the few pictures of 'attackers' show moreless indian types. I think a taiwanese pirate trawler mothership did this, and india is just lucky to shoot the next before it came into action against new delphi.

Incredible how corruption in south asian politics affects the indian stockmarkets, btw. did you see that boat? it had tibetan colours, yellow and black, it must have been a covert operation of the chinese then.

and a jewish family meeting... oh wow, storm into the indian mainstation shooting??
that is sth i would trust an indian police force, it's either a police or rightwing kind of action, storm the railways and blame the lefties, a very old scenario.

storm the hotels of the rich with suicide like commandos? thats typically islamist at least when it happens at this moment of time in india, so there i think we meet the suicide bomber mentality of radicalised islam (checks if usia is at war with india.. no, by proxy?? mh .. maybe..)checks if japan is at war with india? mh .. (maybe over trawlers, but i didn't think that.)

the picture isn't very clear yet, part of the attackers escaped, (from the trainstation i bet, t' was either the indian or the western police after all),

guys inside the hotels blew up stuff, theirselves? TV's? Others? just the hotel?
it's casino? all of that? i'm curious. There is also the rare fact that people already identified as europeans escaped when being seperated from the interior of the building, sth. that you would expect only the indian police to easily facilitate.

It get's weirder, there is a slight reluctance from any indian authority to act, at first, to say anything, i think it is because they sympathise with what they personally perceive as the most logic reasons for this attack, at least slightly.

That's natural, i do that to, i really wonder how life looks when you are in kashmir.
It's anyhow a characteristic of secret services in the region to have troubled loyalty issues, for some reason indeed in the ISI for example there is a fool for evrything, the idea can hardly be so nuts not a single ISI guy identifies with it.
Some events in afghanistan suggest similar operative values, and even iraq showed only you can trust not a single militia or any army.

For me pakistans alliance with the usa war on terror is to blame, if you get an automatic weapon for shooting a nr of 'terrorists' (tribal elements or god knows what?) it's a good declaration of total war. Not much is unethic anymore, and a weaponsdeal belongs to these options.

The complaint of the kasmiri people is a prolonged one, altho i think in administrative ways they get what they need, their complaints about discrimination , poverty and discrimination related poverty are substantial.

So i think kashmir could be governable to kashmiri as it is, but the muslim population needs emancipation, (and to find that without intrusion of other people's liberty's probably).

In the discussion someone mentioned asantavari(?) islam, that is very interesting,
if you are free to interprete the koran, the horrendic social construct of islamism suddenly turn's muhammed's a more deserved place as a rationalist (modernist even) counterweight for religious bigotry, but i guess that is beside the point.

India is meant to be a model state by the british, it's some dream of ongoing hindu emancipation (plausible and a bit shallow) and multiculturality and multireligiousness, possibly not in the last place cus christianity with it's direct appeal to peacefullness and friendship usually does well in a nation where islam is on equal footing with others. At least i read today there are supposed to be 160 million christians in india. I think of india as a budhist nation.. so that's pretty multicult.

The real india is an attempt to a 'that kind of model state' so i guess the controversy's are exagerated, the indian 'hindu' majority tending to associate the muslim part of the population as a great factor in the struggle with pakistan and their owns, for wich there isn't enough reason.

The kashmiri otoh suffer from the resulting discriminating situation because it 'continues to proof' their second rate position is artificial.

It won't turn every indian or kasmiri mad, but it might confuse some. The indian middle class is so formal it is almost backward, and i wouldn't be sure they have a large understanding of the situation. (they rely on the western stratification of their societys a lot)

That is if you dare to regard it in an indian context, wich it obviously at least partly is not. The attack has similar characteristics as the attack on a pakistani hotel, i think it is part of a ploy using similar strategy's, that it appears a diffuse and incoherent action i would interprete as a sign of (more) involvment of (secret) police agency's, because it is inconsistent with the more efficient operations in pakistan.

So the worst case scenario is the indian police needs to have had a hand in this,
(it would mean india is in for an effort to start a war "on" terror.)
I think this could be forensically reconstructed from the station. ALso foreign service may have had a hand in it, as witnessed by the unrepresentative attack on a jewish orthodox group, necessarily this means then a western agency has involved, because the israelians wouldn't operate without the western parameters.

This in turn suggest something about the professionality of the services in pakistan,
and it runs a questionmark for all the recent talk about the ISI.

then again, i don't like the ISI, i am a humanist and the current ISI is undoubtedly a result of (amongst) musharaf, and the afghani ... mh aha found the link..
so through the western involvment in afghani intelligence operations, the spearhead of 'fbi' activitys in the region is greatly depending on the israeli's.. mh. could be more true then it appears at first glance,

ok in that model what does it want to proof? That jews are still a victim?
or that anti capitalism is anti semitism? (it's definetly has an antizionist effect on me). I think it wants to proof you can blame an anticapitalist over antisemitism even if that is not true.

Anyhow it so also proofs what it proofs to me, thus that crime is perceived as minor compared the incidents in the hotel and station.
Brutally put, we are secretive sneaks, but at least they didnt target the complete innocentest (didn't we minimise the damage to yurpeans), and beside showing their real character (hindu police shooting hindus and islam/hindu militants shooting hindu's because the yurpeans escaped thx to the jews (uhm indian police that was precluded through the uhm... some service with contacts with the ISI?

(this or a bloodbath), it's quite possible,

next point, what with the hostages, it's not natural like the story stands, there are hostages but no negotiations, no ransoms or demands?

maybe there have been and they kept quiet, wich tells us something. Had the demands been just outrageous there had been no need to keep quiet. Money then??

concerning the hostage taking efforts that would occur to me quickly, it also suits the pirates mind, the only thing would be, it would be so farfetched to start a naval landing for it. mh the attraction of taking the 'bussinesest' hostages could be great,
and the current policy is not to pay.. well indeed you can't expect the world to unite all potential pirates of every sea to take hostages evrywhere, so if that happened, the tale becomes to big for even ISI to connect.

Neway the hostage taking operation in the hotels apparently immediatly failed, security operatives and perhaps infiltrants must have interfered with the events more then the (it appears much smaller then 100) attackers on the hotels (the 'genuine' organisation inhere) anticipated, or i think could handle.

No demands were made public, so if it wasn't about money it must have been about india's internal matters, because anything that would not be sensitive in that respect, would be as outrageous it could be broadcasted or relatively harmless (internationalist rhetorics just like....).

The only statement around that so far comes from exactly the wickiest event, the jewish hostages. The person there appears to make the kind of statement one would expect. a bit to much even so, it's a bit like an alquaida osama tape. But if it's that it is well acted, the young man seems to reach for a terminology he learned, phrases he needs to apply , and his statements are very integer. Very authentic, at least partly, and not religious at all in the first place.

So that suggests the hostages served for the hostagetakers to get broadcasted.
Wich any sane government would admit to...
But! they had already opened the attack on the hotels, or opened it after the station was clear again (the restaurant as well?),
most probably after someone from inside signalled them it was the proper moment to start interfering, wich must at some point have failed. (the attackers stayed active inside the hotels). Since they were not so many they must have regrouped, possibly without the infiltrators, but more certainly with losses. It would have escalated the violence, (or) caused random people to get hurt in the shooting.

So very probably the attackers made use of the hostages at that point, and for the hostages or something else (explosive charges?) the municipal police didnt press on the attack , yet.

The attackers gained some control of the hotels, that have 100s of rooms, many many more then there are attackers. strangely people keep foremostly escaping, it's not like some reign of terror broke loose. Seems to me the attackers were still serious about their attempts on hostage taking, and must have gathered people in some larger rooms away from where the most blood had flown. although the media doesn't report so much about that period, there must have been a period the scene was in relative calmth, with only many, many people escaping from the hotels still.

occasionally there was fire from the inside, at people outside (escaping?) but i don't understand that lead to much bloodshed. So the question rises, where have these "100" people been killed? mostly at the station?

at the restaurant? the description of the station event. well prepared heavily armed man going rampok with hardly (yet attemptedly) policeopposition, is dramatic, the picture i saw tells a bloody story, the 30 odd police in action do carry rifles but nothing decent, peculiar in an enormous city like mumbai, with security services etc. abound.

Reports suggest some attackers (quite some) escaped, but don't yet tell from where.
a policestation was attacked, yeah why not.. that could easily turn a bit bloody on either side, it's quite undoable even, perhaps a superficial local attack? not what the paper suggests but the lack of drama makes it still an option.

this attack fits nicely in the pattern off taking it out on the real enemy's,
something only the station and the jews case don't express (concerning the bloodbath elsewhere the 'jews' wouldn't have survived such a same attack so easily seems to me).

It might also have tactical value, and provide some escapee's, since there are no descriptions of that event, i would guess it achieved much of what you should expect,
very little.. (imagines slowly aggrevating loads of fire from a policestation and it's surrounds), also when the police got attacked in the fashion the hotels did,
(intrusive) or the station did (bloody) the police would from that point be warned to equip its personal with what they had, and not what is the regulation in cases of public disorder. (allthough that again is very respectfull in a confused hostage taking case, it is completely irresponsible and inapropriate in response to automatic fire.)

If the attempt on the station was a sacrificial one we would see that confirmed,
if many of these attackers escaped , there is plenty room for doubt.
The attack on the policestation appears a distraction, perhaps a part of the plan or
a more coincedentual event, or alliance. It could serve to win some time for a hostage taking action. Or an escape from the station ...

i have to find out in what ordre the things happened. More on this later (i guess)
it's a strange story and so widely broadcast i must be able to find some more information.

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Personally i try not to be rude. However sometimes i screw up. Basically i will remove, discriminating and hate posts. And comments clearly derivant from well prepared 'neocon' (kapitalist) pr or secret service agents. (aivd , fbi, mossad etc.) Dutch language is welcome. English prefered, sorry if that bothers my fellow countryman who always seem to think they know how to handle their languages. Ill edit this some time;)

wanted terrorist: name silencer aka stealotron

wanted terrorist: name silencer aka stealotron
Through lies and fraud this one is managed to rob 1000000s of the fruits of their work and their voice